All right. I took my green screen down. Sorry. I'll have to put it back up later. I did buy another one, but I have the same problems in that my chair is just too thick at the top, unfortunately. But I wanted to get this done because tomorrow is podcast day. I'm just waiting for the timer to start just in case this part isn't recording. This one is how we sabotage ourselves in family law matters. So this one can go tomorrow. I mean, the the twenty fifth of June, I'll get caught up again. So we're not rushing it. So apologies for the late notice. Really need to invest in a teleprompter, I think. But anyway, I don't have the money for that yet. All right, where am I gonna start? self-sabotage in family matters which is the title of today's podcast so this episode is really either for other professionals helping people in that family law space like counselors or lawyers and this podcast is also for people who are going through a family law matter or they're supporting people through a family law family law matter or perhaps are about to go down the family law path. So my name is Stacey and I hold many, many titles. So check out my bio. I don't want to bore you just with my background. I do also have to apologize if I'm speaking a little bit funny today. I am prone to getting ulcers and I have a mouthful of ulcers and I'm trying to speak without hurting my mouth and trying to speak clearly. So I do apologize if my voice is a little bit off today. I'm just trying to navigate the else's I have in my mouth, probably TMI, but just in case you're wondering why I'm speaking a little bit different than usual. So as I said, today is about self sabotage in family law matters. This is not designed whatsoever to be judgmental or anything. We know that family law is an extremely emotional experience. The very few would it not be. Sometimes we do have people come to us and they are just so aligned with everything that the emotions in those matters are reasonably low. For the majority of people, it is a pretty high stakes situation. high emotional time and everybody processes things very differently. We can all appreciate that. I am very mindful of that. I am very mindful of the mental health concerns I have for a lot of people going through this process. I've been very open in saying I've had clients who have suicided and my approach to anything, not just in a family law, but I make sure that the mental health of my client is, you know, okay to the point that we can keep proceeding. If not, then, you know, we have mechanisms around that. But I'm also very mindful that if the person at the side who is not our client doesn't have kind of their mental health under control, then I'm not going to be pushing that person to make decisions because I don't want that hanging over my head. And we have a number of clients at the moment where that situation is the case, whether it's our client or the other side, I'm very mindful of that mental health aspect as we all should be. But a lot of people are not, including lawyers, which I think is, for me, I can't not take that into consideration. And it's always something I have taken into consideration. But especially when I had those clients suicide, especially when COVID came as well, it was just even more evident to me that you know, we have to be more than lawyers. I'm not saying we have to turn out to be psychs or anything like that, but we need to be educated in relation to that and not forcing people to push on through a matter while they're in and out of hospital due to the mental health. So having said that, this podcast is just a few things that we come across in a family law matter where that sabotage could come in. And, again, there is no judgement. whatsoever. Some people, it's very, I try to say, well, I say, I try to do, don't react with emotion. And I know that's incredibly difficult. And especially if you are getting slammed by the other side about crap that's not going to move the needle, it's really hard not to react with that emotion. And as a lawyer, I've gotten much better at doing that. If something has come in from the other side, I will call my client and say, hey, just letting you know, this is about to come through. It's probably, you know, it's either what we expected because sometimes we're expecting it, but I will warn my clients. They look, you know, this, you're probably not going to, you know, react nicely to this. It's not a very pleasant letter, but I have a plan. Just let's process and let's catch up. So I don't just send it off and let the client deal with that. And I have my own mechanisms in place as well, where if, you know, stuff's coming in from the other side and it's not needed or it's not necessary or the lawyer's being asked or whatever, I have my own mechanisms in place to deal with that. so um now the self-sabotage can look like a few different things and maybe the word self-sabotage might be a little bit extreme but I guess I just wanted to show you that these things can have a major influence in your matter and if you start your family law matter off aggressive and harsh and bullying That is going to set the tone for how the rest of your family law matter is going to go. So I'm very mindful about how that family law matter starts. I'm not saying it starts good and then it might get to a shit fight at the end. Like that can happen as well. But if you can avoid that, then you can avoid that. So as I said, very emotional. You're making very emotional. So you're making very serious decisions when you are highly emotional. your decisions are going to highly probably affect you long term as well so again we have mechanisms in place for all of that and I'm sure other lawyers do as well but we if you know me and you know my team and you followed us for a little while you know that just how we practice law and And it's the whole reason why I went out on my own. I wanted to do things different. So a basic one is not following legal advice. So I know that seems really simple. we try not to tell somebody you have to do it this way it's like okay so here are the options and here is my why for each we can't make somebody do something that they don't want to do having said that if it gets to a point where we're not comfortable then that might be where we have to go look we're not comfortable you're not listening to us you're being highly aggressive you're being a pain in the ass for sake of being a pain in the ass but like whatever it is if we're not comfortable we will pull our representation from that matter and we're not afraid to do that if we're not aligned then we're not the best person for you you need a lawyer that's more aligned to yourself and those people exist okay so but not following legal advice so I'm massive on the why So I won't just say, no, we're not doing that. Or we're doing this. I'm like, okay, so this is the situation. Here it is on the table. Here are options. Here are the pros and cons of those options. And we will discuss them in depth, but not following legal advice, um, can sabotage your matter just because you're not listening to us, you're trying to make up your own process in something that is heavily, you know, based on case law and legislation. So if there's something that you're not agreeing with, Just go back to your lawyer and go, okay, so, you know, what's the why behind this? You need to explain this to me. This is why I want to do this. This is what I'm thinking. You need to have that conversation with your lawyer. But if you're not following legal advice and you're being like really difficult about it and you're doing it just to be difficult, you're going to be paying so much more in legal fees. And don't be surprised if you go through some lawyers because some lawyers just aren't going to pay that game some will but I know we definitely don't play that game and the aim is to keep your legal costs as down as possible not causing issues for the sake of causing issues and again if that's what you want to do that is up to you we're not those people that will help you through that though so and we're we don't attract those people anyway because we're so very open with the way that we practice law but just know that if you're going to be difficult for the sake of being difficult you're going to be paying for that okay Delaying decisions. So I'm not saying because you've been in hospital and you've been ill or you haven't been mentally well that you're delaying decisions. Again, the delaying decisions probably falls into the not following legal advice in that you're just being an arse for the sake of being an arse. Again, that is going to cost you more in legal fees because you're going to be getting chased. You're probably going to piss your lawyer off. You're going to piss the other side off. And again, that's going to dictate how your family law matter goes. So again, you know, I... it's really hard. I can try and put all these caveats in place. But if you are delaying your decision, just be difficult. Know that you're going to be paying more in legal fees and your matter is probably not going to go as smooth as it could because you're delaying it on purpose because you think it's going to hurt the other side or you're you know, you think you're going to get the last word in or whatever that is, no, that's going to cost you money. And again, if it gets to a point where you're doing this just to be that person, again, we will probably pull a representation from you. case-by-case basis but we're fortunate in that we we don't really have those decisions those you know those decisions to make because we just don't attract those clients and that's something we're proud of there are definitely lawyers out there who will do that though so they are your people you go find them if you're wanting the more holistic approach to your family law matter then we are definitely those people and there are definitely other lawyers out there for that but delaying decisions just to be difficult do not recommend Picking fights or refusing to compromise. That's another one as well. So again, it falls into those previous two things that I just spoke about, but picking a fight for something. So I get that, you know, things are highly emotional. We have had, you know, in context fights or the client has tried to start fights with something that is so, so small, like a bucket or a plant, like something really, really simple. And we know what the symbolic meaning behind that is, but then we have mechanisms to work with our client to go, okay, so is this something we really need to bring up? And if we get something in from the other side and it's not going to move the needle, I usually just ignore it. And I have other mechanisms in place depending on what it is and what keeps coming up. But I'm not going to put crap in a letter or to cause aggression on the other side, to keep having the tone of this matter aggressive when it doesn't need to be. And again, kind of picking those fights or refusing to compromise is again, going to be costing you more in legal fees is going to cost you longer from an emotionally charged perspective, from a financial perspective, from being able to wrap it up perspective, from an energy perspective, from all sorts of different things. So, and again, it's not like it's a win-win situation. There is highly likely going to be compromise with things and, So, again, you just need to be really open to not picking those clients and working out what's relevant and what's not. I would tell my clients to just hurl abuse at me because I'd rather that come to me than they go to their kids and that goes back to their parents or they're hurling abuse at the other side or their ex or whatever it is. I honestly say, look, avenge your frustrations on me. I'm giving you permission to do that. I'm not taking it personal because I know it's not about me. And I would just much rather that than have that anger go out elsewhere. So I'd be highly surprised if somebody says something that I have not heard of before because that is just how I tell my clients. I would rather that frustration vented out on me than putting it on the other side. But again... If that's your thing, go find the lawyer that's going to do that for you. We're not us. And thankfully, there are other people who I shouldn't say thankfully, that's being a bit judgmental. But if that's going to be you, you know, you're probably not listening to this podcast anyway, but we're not going to be right for you. But there will be lawyers out there who will be more aligned in how you want your family law matter to go. uh going back and forth on big choices so like property and parenting so these are decisions or especially the property side that are going to have or anything's probably going to have a consequence but especially with property and coming down to money and setting yourself up for the future and depending on where you are at the time frame and if there's kids involved those are decisions that can have a lasting impact and they're things that need to be taken seriously But, you know, from a parenting perspective, if you're going to use your kids as pawns to get back at your ex, we are not for you either. It has to be in the best interest of the kids and that is often forgotten because you'll have parents just trying to have at it. and each other and it's the kids who are put down here because you're just trying to be difficult with each other and you know sometimes there are needs where the kids may but maybe should not have a contact with um a parent or something and then you know that's a whole other podcast I'm not going to go into that but just being mindful that you know you are making some big choices you know, highly likely will be going back and forth a little bit. Mediation can help with that. The skill of your lawyer and how your lawyer practices also will come into play with that. But yeah, I was going to say something and I've forgotten. The next part is why people do it. So a lot of people do it without realizing a lot of people process things differently. Again, it's a very emotional area of law. Sometimes people may mean to do things because of being asked. Sometimes they're just reacting to that emotion and that has to be taken into account as well. So there is a lot of unknown in that there is a lot of fear of failure as well. um you know you're you're going to something unfamiliar so you're having to set you know yourself up again for the future and having those new routines and what this new life is going to look like um you want to win. So it's like, I'm going to win my family law case. And it's like, well, that's probably going to be the wrong attitude. And it probably should be another episode in itself. But again, it comes down to that compromise. It's not about winning. It's about compromising. So a fair outcome is reached for each of you. And then you can go on to your new lives. but not knowing what that looks like as well that can be really scary that is why I started empowered separation so you can have a bit of an idea of what that future will look for you now I'm not saying you have to stay with a in a relationship to wait until you get more money or something like that like in probably a whole other episode in itself but not knowing what that looks like can put people into a lot of fear which is very understandable but it's why I've created that program so you can have a bit of an idea of what that process will look like and sometimes it might take people a little bit to get to the point where they're ready to have that conversation to leave as well. There's a planning process with that. But not knowing what that looks like can be really scary until you know what that may possibly look like. There could be subconscious patterns in there from your childhood or past relationships as well. um and again that's kind of like where the clinical hypnotherapy comes into that I'm not going to go into that in detail because I could be here all day but there's some conscious patterns from your past relationships or childhood could come into this as well dv is a very big part of this part um or of that you know of what I've just said because it's it's what's familiar And that's why sometimes it's hard for people in a DV relationship to end that DV relationship because it's just what's familiar. So again, I'm not going to go into that in great deal, but know that subconscious patterns can play into this as well. And also a lack of trust in themselves or others. So, you know, we are not a very liked profession, which is very disappointing because I think there are more good people than bad people from a legal perspective. So that doesn't help. But a lack of trust in yourselves to make the right decisions or that you're making the right decisions or that you can do it on your own or whatever it might be, that can come into it as well. And again, that's why we've incorporated a part of that into empowered separation because mindset is a really big part of a lot of things, but especially in a family law sense. So from a professional point of view, what it looks like. So we're very mindful, I suppose, of what I've just discussed, but some lawyers might see this as resistance or avoidance or you're emotionally shutting down or you're unintentionally undermining your own case or you're doing it on purpose. Those things might be legitimate as well, but sometimes from a legal perspective, they're not thinking about the other things that could be attached to this and they're seeing that you are that difficult client. So I would highly recommend that you pick a lawyer who is both on your team and who you can mesh with and get along with and have the same values and things like that, because that's going to have a big difference. And if you tell your lawyer that you're, you know, I don't know, that you're not trying to be difficult. It's just that you're frustrated. You're going to have to give me like a couple of days to think about it or whatever it is. If you communicate that with your lawyer, then that's going to give them a bit of an understanding as to why you're doing the things that you are doing. Again, sometimes people are doing it on purpose. A lot of the time it's even subconscious thoughts that you are getting, that you're just reacting with that emotion and, you know, And you're off with it. If you're abusing your lawyers that I tell people to do that, I don't take it personally because I want them venting at me. Not everybody probably wants that though from a legal perspective, but yeah, I tell my clients I'm cool with that. I can take it. I know it's not personal. Please make your frustrations at me. Don't do it to your ex. Don't do it to your kids because it's not going to end well. But communicate any issues that you're having with your professional, whether that's your lawyer or counsellor or whatever. Especially let them know if you're having mental health issues and they need to go to hospital for a little bit. That is one thing I'm very open with my clients and sometimes I can even tell gauge it before they tell me so big really really big on that if you need some time out you need to have some time out I say we work at the pace of the slowest person and so that I don't mean that in a bad way I mean if someone is struggling mentally we work at their pace we don't work at the pace of this person who's ready to go You know, there could be a lot of resistance, denial or emotional shutdown as well that plays into that. Again, just communicate this with your lawyer. If you need a counsellor, go get help. I know that It's hard to get into people and I'm trying to do what I can to help with that. Sorry, my phone just started ringing mid-podcast. But, yeah, you do have your online services. You might already be engaging in a counsellor. We do have some stuff in Mindpower Separation Program and there will be more. I know that we struggle to get clients into seeing people if we're at the point where we're really, really concerned that they're going to self-harm We have done self-harm training. We've done suicide prevention training. Like, you know, we can only do so much. But if you are struggling, please communicate that. Over-researching or asking ten people for advice. Love it. So I have spoken about this many times about going on your Facebook groups. and asking unqualified people legal advice. I absolutely, ugh, it, I see what comes up. It's disgusting. It's going to confuse you. It's more than likely wrong. It's based on someone else's opinion or experience. That does not mean that that's how yours is going to go. Please be really, really careful as to who and where you go for advice and asking ten people or multiple people who are probably going to have the same opinion as the randoms in the Facebook group. Please be very, very, very careful. because that is usually unhealthy. It's going to confuse you more. It's going to stress you out more. It's going to be harder to make decisions because ten people have told you ten different things. Please be very mindful about that over-researching component and asking people for advice. Make sure you get your advice from qualified people, so whether that's from, you know, podcasts like this, legal websites, you know, I don't know, whoever else, don't go onto a Facebook group chat for a local community page and, you know, put your stuff on that because I actually had to end up leaving those Facebook groups because I just, I couldn't do it anymore. Like it was really difficult and it was basically hard to, you know, tell people to stop doing that, you know. So please be very careful of that. um ignoring or blaming professionals trying to help so I guess I'm kind of covered with that um as well people might be doing that intentionally or not intentionally and it's just due to the nature of the matter so um if you you know if you your lawyer was trying to tell you something and then you rant at them then you hang up the phone and then you realize oh my gosh I shouldn't have done that and if you can't pick up the phone again just send a quick email saying I'm so sorry I did that Obviously, very emotional. I'm not blaming you. I just let it out on you. Just give me a little bit to process it type thing. So please don't be afraid to do that. Don't treat your lawyer like shit. You know, they're trying to do what's best. for you and to work with you to get through your matter. But if you do have a bit of a vent and they're not like me and say, you can vent to me, just kind of apologize for your behavior and acknowledge that it was just in the heat of the moment. I think the majority of people would understand that. So what we can do about it, so we try and approach things with as much compassion as we can. So very rarely will we have to break up with a client. We just don't attract those type of people who are not aligned to how we practice. But Yeah, we just, you know, it can be like a really, really difficult time and it doesn't matter whether you're the person that initiated it or whether you're the person who has, you know, had it initiated upon. Compassion is a really big part of it, even compassion for your ex as well. So I know at times you might want to, I don't know, chop their heads off or something, but having that compassion as well. Yeah. All the feelings. I don't want to say that anything is normal. I don't want people thinking that they're not normal because they haven't experienced something. Whatever you're feeling, it is what it is. So whether that's happy, that's sad, whether it's anger, whether it's whatever, you might be feeling that all within a day. Sorry, that is my phone going off again. I will make sure I stick on airplane mode once it's finished ringing. um but just whatever you're feeling it is what it is so I don't I said I don't like to kind of normalize the behavior because I don't want people thinking that because they're not feeling something that they're not normal just whatever it is it is um people say like you're not broken as well I mean a little bit like with that just however you're handling it it is what it is you know type thing um Focus on the micro wins. So sometimes familiar matter will go for quite some time. Focus on those micro wins. So it might be that all the disclosure is now laying on the table. Take that as a win because that can be a really draining process. You have ninety percent resolved your settlement, maybe take that as a win. Sorry, my phone has just stopped ringing. I usually do this all the time, so I apologise for not putting that on your reply mode before. But, yeah, so it might be that you've agreed, like, take that as a win. You might have been getting really nasty, horrible letters and now the tone of those letters have changed. Celebrate that micro win as well. Those micro wins, and it's not just in family law, it's with anything. Just remember to celebrate those wins, even if they're micro. It's something that I'm getting much better at. I'm still not doing it anywhere near what I should be, but just focus on those micro wins because all those micro wins are getting you to what that end goal is. Use that team that you need. So I have lawyers, coaches, therapists, all the best support. Obviously, I'm kind of like all three of those. But there is a method to my madness. It's just if I can educate myself and pass it on to my team, that's just going to benefit you guys if you turn on to be clients or if you follow us through the podcast or go through the program or whatever it might be. But please don't be afraid to reach out for help at all. So to wrap up, whether this is coming from you or from your ex, know that reactions might be because someone is hurting or because they're scared. That's a pretty valid reason. They're not finding that right support. So maybe they haven't found a lawyer that they align with. Maybe they are worried about their mental health and they can't get in to see somebody or they can't find somebody that aligns with them. Take those things into consideration. as well and try not to be so judgmental again somebody could be doing that you know for the sake of doing that but do consider um you know maybe they're doing this because they're hurt maybe they're doing this because they're scared um and yeah our goal is to move you forward that's what we really want to do um So try not to be your own worst enemy. Please reach out. I don't think that there is anything more. To me, I'd rather you over-communicate than under-communicate. if you think I need to know something, tell us. It'd be very surprised if anything offends us or we're so shocked by something. You know, we see quite a lot of things as a lawyer and I would rather know that because that's going to give me context as to why maybe you're behaving how you are. So, you know, clients will tell us that they were sexually abused and that can have a context as to why things, how they are as well. So, and obviously everything is all confidential. Nothing goes beyond, anywhere. But knowing things can just help us realize why something might be happening, I suppose. Getting support is not weakness at all. Please see it as strategy. A lot of people think that they have to get help when they're weak. How about you change that? Support isn't weakness, it's strategy. And, yeah, if you're a professional listening to this podcast, just leave with curiosity and kindness. Don't assume things. There is a saying to that, but I can never quite remember how it goes, so I'm not going to try to stuff it up. But just leave with curiosity and kindness. Know that, you know, to you, your client might be difficult for the sake of being difficult, but maybe they're not. Maybe they're not telling you something because you haven't earned their trust yet. Maybe it's hard for them to trust because of what's happened. Maybe you're being judgmental yourself and thinking the client's just being an ass when they're being an ass because they're struggling to communicate with you or something like that. So, you know, lead with the less aggressive side. first before you just go straight to the aggressive side and you're accusing them of doing something that they're not doing or they're not knowingly doing. So I hope that helps. I know I've done a lot of family law or a lot of legal episodes lately, so I will change that. and do some, you know, other podcasts that aren't so based on illegal. As always, if there is something that you would like, if you would like me to focus on, please do reach out so that this podcast is for the benefit of you, not me. I'm just going along with the feedback that has come in and the questions we get asked. So yeah, hopefully that has helped. The show notes and links will be down below as usual. Please share this with anybody who you think might benefit from it. And thanks for watching again. And I will catch you next time. See you guys.
