Yeah, I'm just going to wait for the timer to start because I've been caught out. It says recording, but I'll wait for the timer. Okay. So we don't get cut off at the start. Come on. And we're twinsies. We're both blacken. I know. I always wear black. Even after I've lost weight, I still wear black. I just love it. I used to always wear it because it made me look thinner. But now I still love it. I just love black, especially on top, you know. I wear black a lot because, like, they spill food on me if I was to wear lighter colours. So if I wear black, I really hate it. Me too, yeah. Come on, recording timer. Come on. Don't forget to send me your links and your profile, bio or whatever you want me to put on it as well. Will do. I think next week's is already scheduled, so it'll be the week after. Okay. I've been getting ahead of them, which has been good. Yeah, that's nice. I haven't done mine since January. I ranked top two hundred yesterday. That was pretty cool. Oh, yeah. That's awesome. In what category? Business? Self-improvement. Oh, wow. That's awesome. I forget what the other category that I have is. I never check it. Come on. Okay. You ready? I'm ready. I was just looking at full length mirrors. Priorities. Well, my mirror smashed. It fell out the door and just fell into a million pieces. yeah so i just want to get one that can hang over the door you know you need a full-length mirror in your office i don't know you kick it then that'll hang over your door yeah well this one was a stick on one from big w i just made a big market town have you ever been there it's like yeah i used to work there it's a ghost town i had nothing oh sorry no i worked at big w jasmine sorry Oh, is that better sound? My microphone's now plugged in. That's way better. Yeah. And I'll reduce the background noise. There we go. How much better is that? I didn't have it plugged in. There we go. I heard you, but it wasn't that bad. All right. Yeah, I'm ready. Let's go for it. Action. Okay. So I am here today with amazing Jamie Abbott, who we have been trying to do this podcast, I reckon, for at least eighteen months. I forgot about it. It's been that long. Yeah, and then like, you know, getting cancer kind of stopped shit getting done. But I'm going to get Jamie to introduce herself. And today we're going to talk about how we can become better communicators. So this applies to everything. Like it's your relationships with friends and family, work colleagues, clients, absolutely everything. So Jamie, I'll get you to introduce yourself and then we'll get stuck in to today's show. Oh, thanks, Stacey. It's always nice to be able to introduce yourself because, yeah, it's always a challenge too because you kind of expect people are going to read out your bio. But I guess from the heart, you know, I help people to become better public speakers and these days how to get paid to speak as well. So I have a background in three mainstreams, the military, politics and journalism. Started out as a TV and radio journalist, moved into the military actually from there. I'm still in the Air Force Reserves, did a tour of Afghanistan for six months, traveled all over the world coaching people how to master media interviews, do public affairs for the Royal Australian Air Force. I then moved to Jamaica a couple of years ago, working for the UN as a media spokesperson. And along the way, I've dabbled in politics. I was a local counsellor in the Hunter region of New South Wales in Australia, and I've run for state and federal parliament myself, and I've had my business now. It kind of was a side hustle along the way for thirteen years, teaching people how to be better at communicating, how to speak, how to manage nerves, and really how to present with purpose. Yeah, and that has helped you, like doing all the things that has helped you along your journey, both like within yourself and with your clients. Like even before I knew, knew, knew, knew you, like I knew of you and I knew that it was in, you know, that the politics side and the communication side and everything. So I'm very happy that you've taken some time out to speak with me today. So we'll get into it because we know people are busy. So I suppose we communicate regularly. every single day. Obviously, I'd hate to think of what the average how many words we say a day. It's a lot. It's a lot. Ridiculous. So speaking would be worse. But I don't think most of us have actually been taught how to communicate. So, you know, it's not like communication is like a lesson at school where, you know, getting kids communicating together or especially in relationships or relationships break down because of lack of communication or not communicating effectively. Why... Do you think we're just not taught how to communicate well with other people? Oh, that's a really interesting point. I think straight off the bat, a question I haven't really been asked before. I think back to school. Before we came on, we were in the green room of your podcast and I would say, I don't want any questions. I normally don't like to have the questions up front because it can sound too scripted. But now I'm like, oh, that would have been an advanced one. We don't have the questions. But, no, I mean. That's always your skill, that, right? Yeah, I know. I know. Practising what I preach. But I think, you know, you go back to school and it was all, remember the debating days when we were in year ten or even sometimes earlier, year seven, I think, we got taught how to debate. We were moody. Yeah. yeah. And then, you know, mock trials, yeah. And debating. Yeah. So that sort of stuff where you'd get up and you just kind of present, um, a talk, um, and it was very structured, but it wasn't, wasn't two way. It wasn't focused on active listening, all that sort of thing. These days, I think I, even when I was a kid, I was addicted to Nintendo sixty-four and super Nintendo. And I played Donkey Kong country and super Mario brothers until I finished the games. And, um, you I actually think back to that now because I've got two young boys and I'm like, I don't want them to get addicted like I was. And I think these days with screens and all that sort of stuff, it's worse than ever as far as being able to communicate two ways. So active listening, show an interest, ask people the who, what, when, where, why and how. those basic communication, those fundamental communications, looking at people in the eye, it's not something we are taught. And I think it's getting worse when we have such a screen device, AI slash, you know, insert technology here. And I think getting back to that face-to-face communication is really where people are going to have the edge and it's where people are going to succeed because you cannot beat that in-person human contact communication. Yeah, and I think I'm digressing from my questions, so hopefully I remember to go back to them. But, like, even the whole COVID thing, and I don't know, like I just said, like there's obviously technology and stuff in there as well, but Zoom became so much more popular. I know we didn't have as many people coming into the office anymore because they were okay with Zoom and then, like, you know, the whole DocuSigning thing, so with, like, signing documents and stuff. So there's definitely been a massive increase I suppose, in how we do communicate. And you are right. Maybe it's going to get worse before it gets better. You know, I think a lot of people are wanting to go face to face again because they miss the face to face. And, you know, there's more people attending events and putting events on now. And, yeah, like I'll see my kids. So my kids are third, tenth and fifteenth. I'll see them scroll like on TikTok and stuff. And if you don't have their attention within like I reckon two point zero seconds or something, like it's gone. Like the attention span is just not. there so yeah um which this probably leads into the next question so i did remember to go back to them um when you meet someone who is an exceptional communicator what do they do differently compared to somebody who maybe doesn't communicate as well Oh, but the main difference is they show a bloody interest in you. They look you in the eye. And I've studied this. Even, you know, regardless of whether you like the royal family or not, Kate Middleton, so the, you know, Kate, Princess of Wales, I watch the way she communicates. She will look people in the eye and will not, like, fault up, will not look away or anything like that. and i think i i i watch her and i study her and that's just one example i haven't even met her in real life people who i meet in real life who maintain that eye contact and they ask those questions about yourself so who are you what do you do and i say to people you know it's so bad at the moment stacy i actually have lawyers particularly lawyers but i have a lot of white collar workers paying me to show them how to communicate at networking events It's particularly lawyers because they're incredibly good at what they do. They're very good lawyers, but they can't communicate. And even their handshake, you know, when they go and they shake someone's hand, it's losing them clients. They're either going too firm or really limp and not looking at people in the eye. And so they get me to come in and I say to them, just bloody fake it. Even if you don't care about that person, just pretend. And I take them through a formula and I really think it is the secret to life personally. And that is the five W's and the H, the who, what, when, where, why, and how. And it's what I use when I'm teaching someone how to structure a speech. It's what I use when I put a press release together. It's when I write sort of any caption on LinkedIn. I think who, what, when, where, why and how. So if I met you at an event, who are you? What do you do? Where do you do it? Why do you do it? When do you do it? And how do you do it? Just pretend that you have an interest and people love that. It comes back to that, how to win friends and influence people sort of philosophy, but just show an interest, maintain eye contact. Even if you don't care, pretend to care, just fake it till you make it. And that's what you need to do. People just want to know that, you know, people love to talk about themselves. And if you can just show an interest and pretend, you will do well every single time. It really is that simple. Yeah. And I think we're just used to overcomplicating. Like that's, I think people are just so nervous about what they have to say. So when I, you know, most people I deal with are either too extroverted and just too far up themselves, or the majority are extremely nervous and worried about what they have to say. No one really cares. Everyone's so focused on themselves. So say, for example, you came to an event and you are not a good communicator. Usually it's because you're so worried about what you have to say. Like, oh, am I going to say the right thing? Or is anyone watching me? Oh, how do I go up and join a conversation? Or how do I exit a conversation? How do I approach someone? Everyone's so worried about themselves. They forget. Just show an interest in the other person and then everything else will flow. I know I make it sound simple, but I think It's just these little icebreakers that once you get warmed up and once the other person thinks, oh, wow, Stacey really is caring about what I do and is showing an interest, everything else will flow and you'll be memorable as well for that person that you were talking to. Yeah, I'm definitely a situational introvert and extrovert. I know that probably seems weird. So sometimes I'll be like really introverted and kind of like just have my, I don't want to speak to anyone. I'm just here because I want to be here. Like, don't talk to me. And then sometimes I go the other way and I'm extroverted and then I'm Yeah, then you kind of have the thoughts of, oh, am I too out there? Am I like too in people's faces? Am I asking too many questions? Like it's, yeah, but it's like practice makes perfect, right? Yeah, absolutely, right? Yeah. And don't cut people off either. I've met people and thought, God, they were rude. They were up themselves. But then when I've got to know them, I've realized actually they were just really nervous going to that event. I had two tables of ten the other day at a charity lunch that I'd organized. And there were people on the table who were just sitting there not saying anything. I thought, well, that's a bit rude. And it wasn't until I left that one of them said, oh, I've been sitting here this whole time trying to get the courage to talk to you and so don't cut people off because most of the time they're just nervous and afraid um and they're not acting in a regular way that reflects the the true and kind person they may be yeah and that would have been really hard for them to attend right like if they're packing it at the table for them to even say yes to that and then go to the event and sit at a table with people obviously they didn't know um you know that's a lot for them to take in as well um so you've probably already answered this one but the next one was what's the biggest communication mistake you see people making i guess it's just making it about themselves not asking enough questions how they can help the other person and just um kind of the i said the who what when why how philosophy that you work by right Yeah, but also it's just not being purposeful. So when you go to an event, think, okay, why am I going to an event? Are we going to any speaking opportunity? It might be a dinner party. It might be a meeting. And just being really purposeful. So ask yourself, what am I trying to get this person or these people at this event or wherever you're going into, what am I trying to get them to think, feel or do? And it's really important that you get clear on that. As selfish as it might be, you might even be something like, it might be something such as, I want to win these people over so I can get them on as a client. So being really purposeful in regards to that. And therefore, what are the key words, phrases I need to say to make that happen? And also being really clear on who your audience is. So if you go to a women's event, who are you trying to talk? Are you just trying to make new friends? Are you just trying to hear from the guest speaker? Perhaps are you trying to get new work, boost your referral network? Just really asking yourself before you get out of the car, going into anything, who is my audience? What am I trying to get them to think, feel or do? And therefore, what are some of the keywords, phrases that I need to say to to achieve that aim. And I think that's a mistake a lot of people make. For me these days, it's just when I go to an event and I'm a hundred and ten percent extrovert, probably the only genuine hundred percent extrovert that I know. And people say that they are, um but i don't know i don't know i've not met anyone like me i thought that there were more of us out there i thought where are you all um but i just go to events these days to have fun i've got four events tonight there were seven events on in newcastle tonight i chose four of them um i've got i've got a little buddy little buddy he's the same age as me um josh um and we go to events together and he he is probably similar to me i don't know if he's a hundred percent extrovert though because he likes his alone time And I don't. I don't need any alone time. I drive to Sydney. That's my alone time. And I call people all the way down from Newcastle to Sydney. Whereas he does. He likes his alone time. I think. I could be wrong. But we genuinely, I mean, he might be a bit more strategic. I'd have to have this conversation with him. But I genuinely go to these events to have fun. And then for me, it's an added bonus that I might get clients out of it. But I think if you're not like me and you don't find it fun standing around eating canapes and drinking champagne just for, you know, shits and giggles, maybe ask yourself, who am I trying to seek out at this event? What do I need to think, feel or get them to think, feel or do? What are the key words, phrases I need to say? And that's really, really a mistake a lot of people make if they don't do that. Yeah, I probably don't either. So thank you for the tip. All right. So people who want to speak better, Also need to listen better, I suppose. So what do you think good listening actually looks like? Probably very similar to the questions you've already answered. So listening is probably also asking the right questions and not getting, like I try and be very present. I'm pointing to my phone because everybody can see what that is, right? No. Being present in the moment, it's not quickly getting your phone out and, oh, yeah, yeah, oh, that's awesome, Jamie. Yep, yep. Like... That would be the biggest takeaway, right, is like to be a better listener, you need to be present in that conversation and not make it all about you. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm not so big because I'm a big scroller as well. If I'm on my phone, I just make sure I am listening. I can do things on autopilot on my phone and I will even say, oh, look, I'm not being really sorry. I've just got to respond to this. I am listening and I do actually listen. So, you know, I think it's about, I think it's a bit too unrealistic in these days to say you're not going to be on your phone at all at an entire event. But one mistake people do make as well, I think, in regards to not listening is they're too busy worried about the next thing they have to say. Right. So rather than, and I made this mistake when I was a journalist, I remember I went and I think it was Russell Crowe. It was someone who I don't really, I'm not a huge fan of, but it was someone big when I was at two GB radio in Sydney. And I went and interviewed him. And I remember having my questions like written down and I wasn't listening to what he said. And it's such a life lesson that I made at twenty, like a mistake I made. And he basically I had the microphone, a two GB microphone, and he said something along the lines of this is actually the best movie I've ever made. And I didn't listen to him. And my next question was, do you think this is the best movie you've ever made? Yeah. Yeah, and it was like a big press conference. You know, I remember the Channel Seven cameramen and they were laughing at me and he's like, did you just hear what I said? And it was Russell Crowe. Yeah, it definitely was him. Anyway, my point was that's a lesson in life. You're too busy worried about the next thing people have to say. And I think even with your podcast, I used to write down all the questions as well. And, but nowadays when, and I think it was, I guess I've got an advantage coming from journalism. I find if you, and this is the same in life, if you are too busy worried about the next thing you have to say, or even if it's a question or the next talking point about yourself, you're not listening to the person. And I think it's a bit of a practice. Anyone listening to this, I would encourage you to give yourself a little test and say, I'm going to go to an event and I'm going to really focus on listening to what the person says. And when they're finished speaking, try and ask them a question that flows on from that. So, for example, if that was, you know, today's day and age and Russell Crowe said to me, oh, you know, in this press conference, it was the best movie I've ever made, I would really think, okay, what's a question I can ask him in regards to that? Why is the best movie you've ever made? Or maybe, well, what do you think is the worst movie you've ever made? And just really giving yourself such a little tiny challenge to think, I'm not going to come in there with any preconceived questions or talking points. I mean, it's good to have your elevator pitch ready anyway in case they say, what do you do? You know, you've got that who, what, when, where, why and how about yourself, like who you are, who you help, what you do, why you do it, where you do it, when you do it, how you do it. Have that ready for yourself. But just think, I'm going to really make an effort to listen to this person and to focus on their answers and then give them a follow-up question based on that. And I do think that that is something which... can make you a really good listener and then because you're kind of repeating back what they've said but you're taking it a step further it's not easy it is not easy even when I do my podcast questions now or my podcast guesting people always say to me can you have the questions and people always give me the questions and I try not to look at them as a because I'll be too rehearsed but I genuinely when I was a journalist people would say can you give me the questions in advance And I would genuinely say, I don't have any questions. We are just having a conversation and I wouldn't come in with any prepared questions because the conversation can go in a completely different way to what you thought it would anyway. But it's definitely a skill. I get interviewed all the time on podcasts and ninety percent of the time I get given the questions. But I definitely think that the best interviews I've done when I haven't had questions either way given to me or when I've given the questions to the guest. Yeah, I used to be pretty good with that. And then I guess like I don't, it's like chemo brain because obviously I've been through treatment. So it's worse than baby brain. So I'll have like blank moments where I'm just like, Like there's something I meant to say here and I can't remember what it is. Yeah, fair enough. Gosh, I mean, no one will ever understand that unless you've gone through that, that's for sure. Yeah, and it's similar to baby brain. I don't like using the phrase and keep trying to tell myself my brain's getting better. But I like to have a few there. to prompt my memory and then you're right so as the conversation flows you're probably not going to go back to what is there anyway and for you saying that to Russell Crowe that's obviously something that's like indented in your head and you're like I am never doing that ever not again Yeah. Yeah. And I guess I'm fortunate to have made those mistakes early in life. But I guess it's just, it's, I definitely get that. Gosh, you know, no one's ever going to understand what chemo brain is like until you've gone through that. And, you know, people always tell me as we get older, you know, it's pre-menopausal, menopausal brain as well. And I think AI is making, is contributing to that and the immediacy of the scrolling and you know, the doom scrolling is also making our attention span shorter. And so sometimes you do get a blank, you kind of lose your train of thought. And that is happening to me more and more as well. And I can't blame chemo brain on that. I do think there's a whole heap of contributing factors to that. But I think just the challenge is to not rely on questions too much. And more so when you are in a real life situation, just don't worry so much about the next thing you've got to say. Have something like prepared in case you go, Oh, I've got nothing else to say. But just practice really listening to the person and following up on the last thing they said is a great little challenge which will make you a better communicator. Nice. So the one I really want to ask, difficult conversations. So a lot of people avoid them like the plague. So this is like in a workplace or in a relationship, whether it's a friendship or like with your partner or whatnot. I think a lot of problems can be solved if we are better communication, if we are better communications, if we are better communicators in relationships. And I was literally having a conversation with a girlfriend this morning about it, calling each other out on our... Bullshit of you know, I was just about to kind of dump you as a friend because I'm sick and tired of it being one way Hopefully she's gonna laugh but and it all came down to communication and then obviously I've had a bit of a turbulent eight months or so, but having those difficult conversations Do you have tips on how you can have those difficult conversations so things don't escalate to, you know, a big blow up with a friendship or a divorce happening just based on the grounds of people not communicating with one another? What are your tips around that? Yeah, I think that's where rehearsal is going to come into it and also preparing for the worst. So really thinking what is the person likely to ask me? How are they likely to react? It's almost like preparing for a media interview in many ways, thinking what do I not want to have to deal with? What likely questions are they going to ask me? And also putting yourself in the shoes of the other person that you're having the difficult conversation with because if you don't prepare for the worst, it will be even more difficult for you. It's something I have through my public service career, my military career, I've been in supervisor roles. And when I've made a mistake and it's been more difficult for me is when I haven't thought about it from the other person's perspective and thought, if I were them and I was hearing this, how would I react? And then having kind of your talking points as such prepared for that. And I always think if you prepare for the worst, and I'm talking when you have a conversation with someone and they absolutely hit the roof, they start screaming and swearing and then running out, creating a scene, that's one of the worst things that can happen. How would you prepare for that? What would you do? And then if you prepare for the worst, it should be much easier in person. And that's kind of doing a bit of role playing in your head or just working out if this person does this, how will I respond? If they ask me this, how will I respond? And preparation is key. Whether you're doing a speech, whether you're going to a networking event, whether you're having a difficult conversation, whether you're doing a media interview, I think rehearsing and preparing, just even just a couple of talking points is going to make it much less difficult for you. Yeah, I agree. That's pretty well what I had said. And then it's like you're going to put the emotion attached to that as well. So, you know, it may not come out how it's meant to be, come out, you know, especially if there's emotion and there's, you know, shots being fired from both ends. But I think not having that difficult conversation can lead to much worse down the track than if that communication is happened sooner rather than later, I suppose, instead of something festering to get to the point of those having really, really high emotional conversations that can lead to the door slamming or the, you know, fist getting punched in walls and things like that. Yeah, absolutely. Don't get me wrong. I'm still, I'm not an expert when it comes to difficult conversations. I will avoid them too. I'm not going to pretend to be up here being like, you know, the expert on this. That's human nature. Because sometimes if we can't avoid it, you never have to deal with it. Like sometimes, like, you know, I know if it's someone who works for you or someone who's in your life, you can't escape them. But sometimes if you do avoid it, they might, you know, move away or something else happens or they may come and apologise to you, something like that. So don't get me wrong. I will try and avoid difficult conversations at all costs myself. Yeah. uh body language is also something that can play a pretty big part with um communication i think um oh this is where my brain's not gonna brain rule well but body language is where you know there's like three things it was like words that you use your body language And I think there was something else that was thrown into the mix. Most people kind of read you with your body language more than the words that you say. Do you know what I'm trying to spit out here? Because this is what happens when you don't prepare questions. No, that's all right. But, yeah, your body language is high up on the scale. I think the words that you say are actually more or tone of voice I think might be the other one. So word, tone of voice and your body language. So for somebody who might be feeling a little bit awkward or they use their hands a lot and like they're waving stuff around, any tips in relation to the body language on having conversations, whether that's a difficult conversation, whether it's a networking event, whether it's, you know, speaking on stage or, you know, whatever it might be. Yeah, thoughts on that. Yeah, so, I mean, look, if you're like me and you do use your hands when you communicate, don't try and stop that. Just keep it down low. So, you know, a lot of us do use our hands. If you're putting them up around near your face, it takes away from your face and it's a distraction, whereas if you just keep them down low, it will be much better for you. And also you don't want to – some public speaking coaches will say, you know, try and put your hands behind your back. I have never been an advocate for that because you will look too stiff and feel unnatural. Yep. And so just keep them down low. But also if you can put yourself through the pain of recording yourself when you are going to an event or you are presenting at something or you're about to hit record, set up that little tripod selfie stick and put yourself through the pain of just playing it back for a couple of minutes and just watching how your body language is. I've been doing this in my videos lately and I notice little things. Every time I go to start a new sentence, I lift my head up and I didn't know that. You are going to be your own and best worst critic And so I think just really paying attention to the videos of you presenting is going to make you a much better speaker. Same as your tone and your voice, your pace. I know that I have a tendency to talk really fast, especially when I get excited about things. And when I play myself, now I'm really being purposeful and talking quite at a good pace. Yeah. I'm aware of it now, but I'm sure at the start of the podcast, I was talking fast. But the more I play myself back, the better I will get at that pace because I just, you know, it's something I will be, I will pick up on more than the next person because we are going to be a harsher critic on ourself. Yeah, talking fast is, well, I think that's probably just most Australians, but I know I talk fast and it's like you've got so many things to say and so short time to say, you're kind of like firing everything out at once, whether it's relevant or not. And I mentioned before that I'd started taking like acting lessons, which I'm absolutely loving. And you're talking about your mannerisms. So most people do lift their head up. So if you're trying to catch a thought, most people do that. I actually keep my head straight, but I look to the right. So if I'm trying to think of something, I'm kind of, I go like to the right and, And I didn't know I did that either because I'm like, why are you filming? Like you're filming me so when I'm like super famous, like you can like release like my initial tapes like to the universe or something. And she's like, no, I'm looking for your mannerisms. So like my hands are pretty good. I know my tone of voice changes because I don't breathe properly, like kind of breathe the opposite of how you're meant to breathe. But from a mannerism perspective, if I'm thinking or I don't know a line or something, I'll look to the right. So, yeah, little things, little nuances like that you're not aware of unless someone points them out or you are recording yourself, which is really hard to do. I don't like looking back at myself. I don't watch my videos or I make sure I watch them with no sound so I can't hear myself. So, yeah. What about kids? So we were talking earlier about screen time with kids being so huge. Is there a communication skill that we should be teaching our kids so everything's, well, even with texting, but just is there a key skill that we should be making sure that our kids have? have, like, you know, on a basic level so they don't lose it, I suppose. Yeah, sure. Before I answer that, just a time watch. It's two minutes to eleven. Like, you're going to – should I tell the next person I'm going to be late? That's all right. Oh, yeah. So you need to go. Oh, I have an eleven, that's all. Oh, okay. Yeah, sorry. All right. This happens to me all the time. It goes in being a forty-minute one. I'll just tell them. No, that's all good. It's going to be five minutes. Okay. Jim obviously cut this part out when you go to edit my video. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I'll answer that question. I'm not an expert when it comes to screen time and kids. I have two young boys, one special needs child as well. And I get it. Before I had kids, I was one of those people that would say, you know, I'm not going to go sleep. I'm not going to give any screen time. you know, fast forward, my youngest was co-sleeping with me until he was like five, six. Oh, he just turned six. We've just stopped co-sleeping and, you know, screen time. But I just think we do have pretty fair rules around it and we've done that from the get-go. So, you know, if you'll come into my bed early in the morning, he might have a bit of iPad time and I'll say, okay, just so you know, you're going to have ten minutes only and then I'm going to get up, okay? Okay. And it's just constantly negotiating. And so far, so good. He is, you know, he might push it a little bit, but I said, no, ten minutes. And then I'll sort of say to him, you know, if we go out and we're going to go to a soccer game, you know, you've done, you do really well, we're going to do this, kind of just communicating. And then you can have iPad. I just, I don't know, like I will, I don't know if that's the right thing to do or not. I'm not a parenting expert. I mean, gosh, are any of us parenting experts? There's no freaking manual, is there? Yeah. But I think it is going to be a challenge. But the way I deal with it is just communicating and saying you're going to have ten minutes and then giving a warning. And then, I don't know, I haven't had any protests when I've taken it off him so far because I think I'm pretty generous with it. But I'm also communicating about those boundaries. I am going to take it off you after this amount of time. And I think, I don't know what I would do if there was protesting happening. I think I just probably wouldn't offer it. So I don't know. So far so good with my six-year-old. You know, my soon-to-be eight-year-old is a special needs child. So, you know, I want him to have the iPad but he won't sit focused and watch the iPad at all, not even for five minutes. So, like, that's definitely not a challenge there at all. Like, he's not watching the iPad at all. You know, he just can't sit still. But, yeah, I think... So far, so good. Communicating, once again, communicating, being open with those boundaries has worked for us so far. Yeah. And it's hard when we're on our phones and computers as well. So you're trying to, but like you're on your phone and you're in the computer. I'm like, yeah, but it's different. Yeah. Yeah. I've had that a few times too, actually. Yeah. Yeah. um all right so we're going to wrap up um i suppose what is the one thing that you want us sorry that you want us that you want to finish up today first of all we'll make sure if you want to work with jamie jamie does some amazing work so we'll make sure that the show notes have jamie's links and stuff you want to work with her further but what is one thing that you want to finish up today that you think um with everything that we've discussed or we haven't quite had a chance to discuss today yet what would be your just the most important thing according to jamie abbott with communication Of course, not only join paid to speak because you can get paid to speak, but no, but more or less, you know, he or she who puts his point of view forward, the best wins. And so that in mind, you can be the most amazing, you know, I deal with a lot of lawyers like yourself, you know, lawyers who are just brilliant at what they do. And I see them, it's not just lawyers, it's anyone. They can be amazing at what they do, but they can't put their point of view across the best. On the other side, you've got people who aren't that great but they can communicate really well and therefore they get the gig, they get the client, they make the money, they get the job interview, they get the promotion. And so I do think investing in your communication style, whether it be just practising, playing yourself back, rehearsing, if you do a presentation, record yourself, play it back and really analyse it, is going to be one of the best investments in time in particular that you can make in yourself. Because as I said, he or she who puts their point of view across the best wins in life. And so definitely from listening to this, it's something I would encourage you to prioritise. Love it. Thank you, Ms. Jamie Abbott. Absolute gold in that. So thank you so much for taking time out of your day. And, yeah, so if you want to work with Jamie, join her pay to speak. We'll make sure all the links are in the show notes. Otherwise, yeah, we'll catch you next time. Remember to share it around as well because you don't know who needs some lessons on communication skills. So thanks, guys. We'll catch you next time. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks, Jamie. Yes, thanks for that.
